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Wizman is going to supernova when he reads your post.

But what was it about the Tem app process you found so disturbing that it made you leave the server?

I understand what you want, you want to be in a small family guild, but also want to raid in the big time. Instead of trying to scrap together the very few people who are not in:

a) Tem
b) destiny
c) DC or regulars on DC open raids

why not.... get these few people who are not in the above 3 categories organized and motivated to join the already existing DC open raid system?????

You could even be their "spokesman" or something, and give your sides imput on what should be raided.. help guide the direction of DC out of Ssraaaa and into VT for some gear, and then hit them PoP flags.

Between DC open raid nights, get "your people" to those VT shard camps! I'm am positive DC would be over the rainbow if you brought a couple groups of VT keyed groups to their open raids, and then after a season of gearing up in VT (which is what all people are doing and need to do before hitting the planes) the DC raids, with "your unaligned people in tow" hit PoP hard.

Problem solved... the frame work is there and waiting for you guys. Are you going to do the VT shard camps? Are you going to start being more regular at DC open raids to get that gear up to par?

This sounds to me what you want right? Its there, its up, and its running. Sing some selo's and catch the wave.

Not at all, he simply found out that Temerity wasn't right for him.

Raiding and being in a raiding guild requires effort, some self initiative, ... things simply aren't handed to you.

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This is just nutty, sorry. What you call an imbalance is merely the result of how many players want to be in Temerity versus DC or Pathfinders. Not making a judgement call here at all. If you want to recruit people to join DC or Pathfinders to equalize the "imbalance" go for it. They'd probably appreciate more people.

I think Locnar has it spot on. Get your bunch of people who want to be in small guilds together and join up with DC's open raids. We'll be watching to see just how far toward the EPs you are in say, a year's time.

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Rysia Belladonna 65 Wood Elf Rogue
Daria Vervain 65 Wood Elf Druid
Carolee Nightshade 65 Gnome Necromancer
Eraiya Meadowsweet 65 High Elf Enchanter
Kylie Santolina 65 Gnome Magician
Therma Nuclear 65 Dark Elf Wizard
Lillie Hawthorn 65 Human Monk
Karia Melilot 65 Halfling Druid
Lisbeth Artemisias 65 Iksar Shaman
Portia Carrera 65 Half Elf Bard

<Temerity>

I started to answer these questions and then I realized how for this discussion has digressed. I guess I let it digress and for that I apologize. Back to the original intent of this thread and lets not get off task again please (no guild recruiting).

Al Kabor open raids. I would like to create a server wide raid format that is inclusive of any player from any guild and unguilded to get flagged for the EPs.

It seems there was agreement to see how the open Ring of Fire raid goes. Also there was some discussion about using the DC raids. Two things with this are that the DC leadership needs to be included in the discussion and that Temerity and Destiny members do not earn raid points on DC raids. Kawaii has very kindly started a thread to post interest in PoP flagging. Please post on that thread if you are interested in participating.

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Aetheas - Wood Elf Druid of Sanctuary
Didgeridoo - Vah Shir Bard of Sanctuary

Please stay with the guild that helped gear and level you up.

Didgeridoo, I really enjoyed doing the odd shard camp or Insignia farm when you were an applicant and was very sorry to see you leave. It is disheartening, however, to read your broad generalizations insinuating that Temerity does not have a fun, friendly, family atmosphere after only two weeks and one raid with us. These insinuations couldn't be further from the truth, I've played this game for nearly 11 years and don't think I've met a better bunch of folks.

Anyway, I was sorry to see you go, I was looking forward to seeing you tagged and in the /gu, sometimes it can be hard without the green! Everyone has to make their own choice though! The most important thing is to enjoy yourself and the people around you when you log on (this is a game, right? ).

More on topic, I generally like the idea of open server raiding, but I will echo some earlier posts in here and say that I think things like the Ring of Fire on Monday the 18th and the Grimling War and (perhaps!) Inner Acrylia one day! These are all fun events that I think would offer the same level of "omg it hasn't been done before" and draw much larger crowds than the lower PoP flagging targets. I would certainly attend!

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PM has been sent Ader, thank you for your post, I do truly appreciate it. I am trying to let this thread be about open server wide raids. Please all, go sign up on Kawaii's thread.

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Aetheas - Wood Elf Druid of Sanctuary
Didgeridoo - Vah Shir Bard of Sanctuary

Please stay with the guild that helped gear and level you up.

Just my yearly two-cents: I've played EQ since March '99 and been on AK since 2005. Every other time I played, I was bored after 6 months, quit cold turkey, started again 6 months after that, and quit yet again in another 6 months....

Alkabor is different, thank god. I was two years in Destiny, now three years in Tem. The outright myth that you have to sacrifice the full game, general adventuring, off-beat fun and making good friendships in order to be a member of a progressive, powerful guild is a tough one to kill, but it is just that- a myth.

On Alkabor I have never had to choose between your perceived options- I have always been in guilds that are both inclusive and close-knit, and at the same time focused on progressing as a whole to the next level. Reading what you think are your two exclusive options, I shake my head and sigh that there is someone else out there that has been hoodwinked into believing that they can't have both.

And to be clear, as others have said, your own ideas about what your two options are is flawed. There are very few people in Tem or Destiny about nothing but loot (are there any at all like that?). The point of everything has always been to pull together, test your abilities, and advance to the next level for the fun of it.

Anyone that thinks you sacrifice one for the other is sorely mistaken.

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Just a bard

The more this thing gets dissected the more it starts to sound like every other thread ever started on this forum regarding the same subject. I’m surprised though it took six pages to get to the crux of it. But folks, unfortunately it’s not an argument you can win, Digeridoo and the people who’ve come before him fail to see the irony in their own statements. “I want to progress into the EPs in my guild with 3 members.”

I hope it works out for you. As said above your best bet is to use the already existing DC system and player base. That will probably be the easiest route. If you’re not interested in that then just post a target you want to lead, the way other people do in this thread (VP, RoF, PoG, etc) and see who shows up. Do it consistently and successfully and you might get a following. That’s a start.

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Of course the people who are in Temerity and love Temerity can't understand why anyone would think ill of their guild or report having a bad experience. I personally can't understand why every mother doesn't nurse their babies. It is the easiest thing in the world! But then I have to step back and realize that I grew up surrounded by women who nursed, I have a supportive partner, I experienced no discomfort, my child had no difficulties learning to nurse, I never experienced infections, and he can't bite me because he has no front top teeth (its a long story). But it would be terribly terribly wrong of me as a mother to look down on or belittle another mother who for what ever reason does not nurse.

I know, I know, most of the people playing are men and cannot fully appreciate this analogy. The point is that everyone's experiences and back stories are different. There are people who have had wonderful experiences with Temerity, there are people who have had horrible experiences. To say that all applicants to Temerity who fall by the wayside do so because they simply want everything handed to them on a silver platter. . . well in the case of Aetheas why would he turn around and join Sanctuary if he wanted the easy life? Sure, everyone would like to eventually see all the content that Al'Kabor has to offer but neither Destiny nor Temerity is a good fit for every member of our community. Hence the suggestion under discussion.

I am please as punch that those individuals who truly enjoy Temerity (or Destiny or generic_guild_x) have found their homes there, but it is ridiculous to suggest that everyone would be happy in Temerity, you may as well suggest that everyone give up their PoK privileges and join Vintage because Vintage has had so much success in their progression. While I watch Vintage with great interest and and thrilled by their accomplishments, I do not wish to play with those constraints though I do my best to respect them when interacting with Vintage players.

The reason these discussion go no where in all the times we have had them is that we can't manage pull our heads out of our asses long enough to realize that everyone plays for different reasons, joins guilds for different reasons and have had different experiences interacting with the individuals and guilds on the server. Your experience is yours but is no more legitimate than any other. The desire to see all the content is not everyone's primary objective, but why say that an individual should shelve any desire to see that content because that individual doesn't wish to, for what ever reason, join one of the two guilds that is closest to that content?

/em throws her hands up in the air.

You bitches who don't breastfeed are all lazy and clearly don't love your children.

(See how silly it sounds?)

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<Sanctuary>
Q: Do real barbarians eat quiche?
A: Real barbarians would hack and slay anyone who offered them quiche to eat, and would then stomp the quiche until it was totally flat. Barbarians are like that.
-Dragon #19

Wrong question to an extent, sort of like the chicken and the egg. Simply put, without the numbers, without the priority (some) to raiding, without the shared focus of all participating, without the constant effort in non-raiding time to support what's needed during raids, .... you're not going to get there. May sound harsh, and I won't say that there has never been an exception, but on Al'Kabor the bar to entry is already very high.

Edit:

What your question should have been is: What does it take to get PoP flagged and to the EP's?

Once you have all the answers (and a true understanding of them) then you have to ask yourself if you're willing to do that to get there.

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Actually I think everyone on this board accepts that people play for different reasons, and join guilds for different reasons. The reason these conversations don't go anywhere is because when you realize that you cant see all the content in your guild with 3 people you look to the bigger guilds and say they are isolationist, selfish, evil etc as it's been done countless times before including this one.

And you got your analogy wrong. The point isn't that as a mother you should or shouldn't look down on a mother who doesn't breastfeed. This argument is not about judgment. It would be ridiculous for you to judge them, ofcourse, but it wouldn't be ridiculous for you to tell that mother that she should not expect her baby and herself to enjoy the benefits of breastfeeding (better immune system, lower cost of living, infant survival rate, etc) if she doesn't breastfeed. Particularly when that mother blames you and the imbalance between the number of mothers who breastfeed v those who dont for the poor health of her baby.

You can't have your cake and eat it too and then blame me for it. And no one on this board has said you can't do anything. You've gotten pretty good advise from everyone that's posted, but it's up to you to make it happen.

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If you reread what I have posted, I have NOT said any of that about the larger guilds. One poster used the term isolationist, true but they are not a member of a 3 member guild. As I have said before, I have included D and T in this discussion as potential participants as I see no reason to exclude them and it could be to their advantage. I am very very sorry if you feel the need to read any of that between the lines of what I have written because truthfully, it is not there. If you are replying to another poster, you should specifically indicate that.

After providing information about the benefits of breast feeding why would you continue to push the facts at a mother who for what ever personal reasons does not breast feed? I am sad that my sister in law stopped nursing her son who has GERD and an eating disorder that causes him to be severely underweight, but I do not know all the facts that culminated in her decision to wean when she did. What I do know, is that as a supportive member of her family bringing this up again and again does not improve my nephew's health. Really, what purpose does it serve for members of Destiny and Temerity to say over and over again, "If you want to see the EPs you should join us" when you do not know the stories of the individuals who have chosen not to join those guilds? We are all in agreement that choosing a guild is a serious business and requires a lot of thought and at this point I think all the guilds and new players are going about it seriously.

I agree we have received much good advice and it is time to move on and try to put it into action. If you are interested in any collaborative effort, go post on the other thread!

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<Sanctuary>
Q: Do real barbarians eat quiche?
A: Real barbarians would hack and slay anyone who offered them quiche to eat, and would then stomp the quiche until it was totally flat. Barbarians are like that.
-Dragon #19

Didgeridoo wrote this:
Let me quote you a bit from your OP:Now, pardon me for being a wee bit skeptical here. It does in fact seem to me that this thread is all about the loot.

Temerity can get you flagged for the EPs. There is one small simple requirement - get a Temerity tag. I don't think its worth getting into the rest of it (at least not right now - maybe later when I am in a bad mood and feeling like starting a 35 page rant ....)

Also, not to state the obvious or anything, but if you're in a small guild like Sanctuary and you decide collectively to join another guild together, you'll still be with your old guildmates, and you'll have a lot of new guildmates to make friends with. You'll still have that special bond with your old guildies as well.

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I have given this some more thought. The initiative is aimed at unlocking PoP content for the masses. The folks who stand to gain the most from that are those whose guilds do not have the forces to do those on their own (i.e., everyone other than Temerity mains and, to a lesser extent, Destiny mains).

The infrastructure for open raiding to advance through Luclin and PoP content with specific appeal to this playerbase is already in place. Dark Conquest. They have open raids three times a week where everyone is given points except for Temerity and Destiny members. Their core is geared pretty well with SSRA and VT drops. Heck, their raidleader (Karpan) is practically on par gearwise with Destiny’s warriors. They have a very competent raidleader and they have a very well developed and fair loot system. They are trying to progress through Vex Thal which is the perfect place to gear up a raidforce with its eyes set on PoP progression. The one thing they are lacking vis a vis Temerity and Destiny is numbers.

I see two realistic alternatives. Option 1: someone outside of Temerity/Destiny takes responsibility for organizing and leading this initiative. (By the way, you cannot expect leadership on this from a Temerity or Destiny member. Both of those guilds are trying to advance through PoP progression and their members’ first priority will naturally be helping their guild progress.) A loot policy is formed and established. 30+ individuals routinely show up on these raids to further this progression. Cohesion is established so that people are willing to log in even when it doesn’t serve their immediate interests. After 7 pages of discussion, we still have no one with any raiding experience who has decided to step up and lead this effort. I have a hard time seeing this take off. Option 2: work with DC to help them progress.

The answer seems obvious to me.

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